ITF 100 Josh | BiggerPockets


For this very special 100th podcast episode, Craig Curelop and Zeona McIntyre are joined by no other than Josh Dorkin. He reflects on his colorful journey of discovering real estate and the amazing story of founding BiggerPockets. Josh shares how a simple collective of real estate resources grew into a vast community that brings millions of people together. He also talks about the importance of vetting business partners, staying true to his goals no matter what, and treasuring every meaningful relationship he has built.

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The Story Behind BiggerPockets With Josh Dorkin

We’ve got our episode 100. If you know where that’s from, you might know who our guest is. It is the one, the only, the man Josh Dorkin. Did you know who he was before this episode, Z?

I did because Josh interviewed me on BiggerPockets and I’m in the only book that he ever wrote. I didn’t know that was his only book so that makes me feel extra special. Do you know who’s not in that book, Craig? You.

I am in that book. You didn’t even read the whole thing?

I read my part. I already know how to invest in real estate.

You don’t know how to house hack.

I do.

We got Josh on here. It’s a special contribution to the real estate space and the community. We thought it was very fitting to have the Founder of BiggerPockets, the central hub of real estate investing on the show to bring it together. I met Josh back when I was working at BiggerPockets. He hired me. I’ll never forget when I was sitting in his office. I was super nervous because I had only heard him on the show. He was still a celebrity to me at that time. The only thing he said is, “If you made it this far, I’ve got to make sure you’re not an asshole. If you’re not an asshole, you’re probably still going to get the job.” Here we are. I’m not an asshole. Z, how are you feeling?

I am bubbles and sunshine.

You seem like bubbles and sunshine. More bubbly and sunshine even normal.

That’s true. We’re going to go into this, aren’t we? I thought it was Scott-free but not. I am bubbles and sunshine because I have started microdosing. I’m having an experiment. I have been a little bit of a guinea pig of myself trying to figure out how to work through anxiety. If you are an anxiety-suffer out there, know that you’re not alone. This happens to lots of us, especially high achievers that have a lot going on. I’ve tried diets, intermittent fasting and medication and then microdosing. I got to tell you, day one is pretty fun. I’m a happy girl over here.

It is unreal how bolder you are. That’s why we love you, Z. Let’s bring on Josh Dorkin.

Josh Dorkin, welcome to the show, the Cofounder of BiggerPockets.

He’s going to kill you.

I thought this was a serious interview but you start with bullshit.

As many of you may or may not know, Josh here probably needs no introduction as the Founder of BiggerPockets but is commonly known as the Cofounder.

Where’s that even coming? I don’t even know.

Josh, you did something pretty incredible where you brought yourself out of the business so much that people forgot that you even founded it. That’s a good thing. A lot of us want to be there. Why don’t you kick it back and tell us where it all started? Let’s hear the founding.

I grew up in a family of entrepreneurs. My parents both worked for themselves. My grandparents were entrepreneurs. Pretty much everybody in my family that I knew was some form of an entrepreneur. It wasn’t in the DNA or whatever it is but I grew up around it. I never thought about it. We didn’t talk about it. It wasn’t a conversation like, “One day, you’re going to be in the business. You’re going to run the business or run a business.” That’s exposure.

The first time I thought about the idea of financial independence or entrepreneurship was rifling through a bookstore. I was with my brother and we were looking at the magazines. We’re supposed to be looking at sports magazines or something. I walk and see this magazine that talks about the richest people. It was either in America or the world. It was on Forbes’s richest list.

I was like, “This sounds cool. Let me check this out.” I started flipping through it. The next thing I knew I had read the magazine while standing there, loitering and was enthralled. It wasn’t as much like, “These are the richest people in the world.” It was more like, “These people solve a puzzle. They figured out how to go from what most people know of as some idea to some conclusion where they’ve got this raging success.” For me, the one that always stands out was the potato guy. I don’t remember his name.

This is the guy who had a potato farm and was the initial supplier of potatoes to McDonald’s. I don’t remember the story at this point but ultimately, he did a deal with Ray Kroc and started supplying potatoes. As McDonald’s grew, he grew and it was like, “This whole thing can scale.” As life goes on, you can scale and grow a business. All you need to do is solve a problem. It could be a problem for one person like, “McDonald’s needs somebody to give them potatoes,” or, “There’s an infinite group of potential real estate investors who can’t get access to information without paying some get-rich-quick guy,” which ultimately was the problem that I ended up solving through BiggerPockets.

I ended up buying that magazine. For the next bunch of years, anytime the Forbes list would come out of the richest list, I’d buy and read it. I’d start imagining. Not that I was on the richest list but it was like, “How did that guy solve that problem? What did this guy or lady do?” It was fascinating. That was the genesis of my conceptualizing money or at least how it works as an instrument.

It sounds like you’ve boiled it down to figure out a problem and solve that problem. People that you can help solve that problem have more money than you’re going to make.

I believe that is correct but for me, that was never a goal. Mind you, I grew up in New York and that’s the finance capital of the world or at least at some point it was. Everybody talks and thinks about money. I ended up interning at a stockbroker and becoming a stock trader for a while. Money was in everyone’s DNA. That is what it is. That’s what people talk about and think about it. It’s weird and gross but it is part of that culture.

If you want to grow and scale your business, all you need to do is solve a problem. Click To Tweet

I ended up becoming a teacher. For a guy who grew up in this space and was obsessed with money, I went through the entertainment business where I was a trashman. I was a teacher. I taught Special Ed for four years. These are not things you do if you want to make a lot of money. When I started my company, I did not make a lot of money for a very long time.

I want to get the timeline figured out. You grew up in New York as an entrepreneur and then you interned at a stockbroker because of money. You’re seeing the green signs. Were you pushing money away? Is that why you decided to go be the trashman or were you wanting to be some celebrity movie star or anything like that?

I wasn’t an actual trashman but as a kid, I was a kid actor.

Were you the guy in the Oscar Meyer Wiener commercial? Is that your face?

In your dreams. No, but growing up in New York, entertainment was also there. I wasn’t giving anything up. I had gotten into the business school at my college at Washington University. It’s a great school. I had a blast and learned a ton. When I got there, I started taking my business classes. They were fantastic. The only issue I had was the kids that I was in classes with were super cutthroat.

I’m sitting there thinking to myself, “Is this how it has to be? If I’m going to go into the business world, are people this bad to each other?” It’s not like the kids were evil. Call it a mindset of, “I’m better than you. I got to be better than you. I have to cut the next guy down to be successful.” I hated that. In my mind, I always thought, “We can be successful and grow. Why does one person have to be cut down for the next person to go ahead and be successful?” It’s a false idea and nonsense. It turned me off big time.

I ended up pulling out of business school going into liberal arts, bouncing around a little bit, getting a Political Science degree and realizing, “I’m about to graduate college with nothing but a Political Science degree. I’m going to be brokering trouble here. Let me go back and get the Business degree.” I went back and got a Business degree. I graduated in four years with both PolSci and a Business degree in Marketing. That was extremely valuable. It gave me a lot of tools. For me, it was this rejection of, “We got to cut each other down.” I never liked that.

I’m curious where real estate came into play. I’m assuming before you taught people about real estate, you had to have some knock-around in the business. Where did that get introduced into your life?

Real estate came into play in college. In business school, I was rooming with one of my B-school buddies. We were living in an apartment building of six units. We would always sit and ponder, “What if we bought this building? Instead of paying rent, what if we were to be the guy collecting the rent?” We could never in one million years imagine that we can afford to buy the building. The fact is we could have. We could have been creative and come up with some methodology or way to buy that building. We probably should have bought that building but ultimately, we ended up daydreaming and talking about it.

It wasn’t until years later that my brother reached out to me and said, “Josh, I bought a bunch of buildings and small multifamilies. I’d love to tell you about it.” For me, that was the real awakening. I was like, “I forgot about this. Let’s dive into it.” At the time, I was teaching in LA. It was something that intrigued me because it was always part of this concept that I wanted to bring into my life.

When your brother bought you those deals, were you a part investor in those or a sidecar?

I didn’t do anything. He showed me what he had done and I was like, “This is cool. Show me the numbers. You spent and put this much down. That’s all I have to do and then I can collect rent? That’s easy. Let me go and buy a property.” His wife was an agent. I flew back into town and started looking at properties with her. In my head, it was buying cheap property. I was like, “I don’t have money so let me buy whatever is cheapest.” I did and bought a cheap property in inexpensive neighborhoods that were not cheap or inexpensive. I learned lots of lessons from buying not-good properties in tough neighborhoods. In every problem you could imagine, I had to deal with.

We have a lot of first-timers or people who bought their 1st place and are thinking about getting 2nd place. I find it valuable for us to dig into that first one. I don’t even know if you’ll remember all the details about it but can you tell us what year it was, maybe what you spent on it and where it was?

ITF 100 Josh | BiggerPockets
BiggerPockets: The last thing you want to do is become a crappy landlord or house flipper just become you can make money.


It was many years ago. It was $85,000 for a triplex. I don’t remember how we did it but we were able to convert tri into four. I was 2,000 miles away living in Cali. This was in Missouri. It was hard. I was relying on other people to do everything. The only boots on the ground were mine when I went to look at it and I had to trust folks to have my best interests. Unfortunately, I did not connect with the people that had my best interests early on. I remember the constant evictions.

In that 1 building, probably over 2 or 3 years, I must have evicted 6 to 7 people. I remember I walked in furious. All this drama was going on. I went to look at one of the units. Somehow, on a solidly built building, there was a giant hole big enough for a large human to fall through on the kitchen floor. How does one produce a hole in the kitchen floor large enough for a large person to fall through? I don’t understand it. How was that done?

I had vacancies. Drug addicts would break in and live in the vacant units. We had the old people and buildings next door tapping into the electricity with wires. I had to put reinforced steel cages around all the AC units because those were getting stolen. It was a nightmare. Those are my fond memories. Ultimately, a few years later, I ended up liquidating it to an investor who had boots on the ground and did very well with it because he was able to keep his eyes on it and watch it.

It’s the lesson that I know you both want to talk bad. Hands are waving. It’s going crazy but the takeaway is to know what you’re getting into. Be aware of what’s possible. Make sure you vet the people that you’re working with, which I thought I had done but I hadn’t. You want to have some boots on the ground and backup boots on the ground. You can get a giant man-sized hole in your kitchen floor. Buy real estate now.

A lot of the lessons learned there is you’ve got to make sure you’ve got a trusted team. I’ve got bitten by that too. I had an investment out in Jacksonville where I picked the 1st agent and the 1st contractor to check the boxes and make it easy. I got screwed as well. Is that what you did? Did you pick the first people or did you do your due diligence?

I did my due diligence. The issue was I was buying in not the greatest neighborhoods. The property management who serve not the greatest neighborhoods tends not to be good, unfortunately. Not only are they not good in business, in general, but they also tend to treat tenants terribly. It’s two problematic sides when you’re dealing with somebody who has disdained for the tenants and somebody who isn’t good enough at business or doesn’t care enough, whatever it might be to best serve the landlords as well.

You can get-by by being a slumlord but you’re not going to grow, thrive and flourish. You can put lipstick on a pig, flip a house and make money when the market’s hot. Maybe the buyer won’t care so much because they get something that looks good but in weeks or months when the house starts to have problems, it’s always going to come back and your reputation’s going to dive.

A lot of people don’t care. I’ve always encouraged people to focus on quality. You want to build a name and brand for yourself in anything that you do, particularly in real estate. The last thing you want to do is be a crappy landlord or house flipper because you can make money. It will work. It just won’t work for a long time.

One thing I gathered from that is a common phrase that I always hear. “You can buy the crappiest house in a nice neighborhood but you can never a house in a crappy neighborhood.” A house can be fixed up in a few months but a neighborhood is going to take years and years. Those cheap houses are tempting because they’re so cheap but usually, you’re paying for it on the back end. It’s like eating junk food. Have you ever noticed how junk food is so much cheaper than healthy food? You’re going to pay for that later when you’re in the hospital with your hospital bills. It’s probably going to be a lot more than if you bought the expensive healthy food in the first place.

We were curious about the going forward of that. When you have such a nightmare property, how do you go, “I’ll just buy another one?” What kept you in real estate?

I bought another one and it was equally as bad but I did it concurrently. That was the birth of BiggerPockets, truly. I was struggling and I needed help. I started looking at books and magazines. They were great. They told me how to buy real estate and how to evaluate it but they didn’t tell me what to do when the guy next door is stealing my power and ripping the copper out. What do you do when there’s a large man-sized hole in your kitchen floor? They don’t tell you those things. They don’t tell you what to do when you walk into check out a unit and the entire bedroom is piled with garbage floor to ceiling.

The books don’t tell you that. In college, I started building websites. I realized that the answer to my problems was never going to be found in a book. Nobody’s going to write a book. Maybe they could try but that would be a big book with every problem that can happen and every possible solution to every problem that could happen. Having had a history of building websites, I realized that this was a problem that I needed to solve for myself. I set out to solve my problem, which was, “Let me get feedback from other people to help me answer my questions and put together tools and resources that would help me get through this nightmare.” That was when BiggerPockets was born.

What did BiggerPockets start as? Was it a site that you developed or did you start it on a Quora forum? Was there anything that exist back then?

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This was many years ago. There are a couple of real estate investment forums.

Are we talking about Yahoo groups or something?

I’m talking about the black and white internet. I did get to experience that and the pre-graphic browser days, which was the coolest thing ever. The first time I saw the internet was at my brother’s college in 1993. We were able to get a weather report at a ski area somewhere across the country. It was a line of text on a black background.

It started as a collective of resources. I started coding in HTML and was like, “Where do I find properties? Let me list property management companies. Let me put a list of REO banks where I can find deals.” I correlated these resources and put them together. There were other forums out there in the space. What I had discovered about these forums or at least what I believe to be true was that the purpose of these other forums was to pitch courses, boot camps and things like that.

Whenever I saw a question, I always felt like the answer was, “Here’s a little information. Let me sell you something that might give you more.” I never liked that idea. It’s a viable model. Everybody does it across every industry practically but I wanted something purer that democratizes the information. I wanted people to get the real answers to the real questions, not have to come back later and pay somebody to get pitched, pay something to get a possible half answer and pay to get another answer.

Early on, it was this anti-guru type of thing. This is a platform designed to bypass that world. In my head, I said, “What if we allowed people to only give answers? If people try to sell and pitch, we’re going to cut them off and say, ‘You can’t do that.’ We’re going to remove the post and force people to give answers.” That’s what we did. I angered a lot of people but ultimately, the community of real estate investors was like, “This is cool.”

Josh, you did a good job. BiggerPockets was the first piece part of real estate that I got into that I didn’t feel like sketched out about. I was like, “Someone’s trying to sell me something.” It felt like when you get on BiggerPockets, people are answering your questions with the authenticity that they want to help. They know that it comes full circle and when you give, you’ll get and all that stuff but you never saw that in the posts. You were at least the first that I know of that led with the value first and figure out how to get paid later.

I didn’t make money for a long time.

That’s what my next question was. You started BiggerPockets in 2004. How long was it when it was just you in your basement? I have this vision which you’re going to make fun of me for but you’re in your basement, in your underwear with Santa Claus underpants and a bunch of Mountain Dews around the computer and talking to yourself through the BiggerPockets. How long were you doing stuff like that for?

It was for eight years. The first two, I was teaching. I did it during my free periods. On nights and weekends, I had a 40-hour week job and another 40 to 60-hour a week job that I did in between that 40-hour a week job. After two years, I got married, quit my job and went full-time building this business. It was a lifestyle business first. At that point, my wife, Julie, risked a lot by allowing me to not work and instead play on this website that I built and cobble it together. When I quit, I don’t know how much I was making but I was making less than minimum wage. Years in, she was on the day-to-day supporting us.

I had saved a fair amount of money so we bought a house. We only lived in one car. We lived super frugal. We were super fire before the fire was a fire. That construct and concept didn’t exist but that’s what we were doing. We were living cheap, building a business, hustling and struggling with the goal that one day it would all be worth it. It took a very long time.

Eight years is a long time. Even for someone your age, it’s a long time. You were younger back then so it’s even a longer time. In those eight years, Josh, did you ever feel like, “Will this work? Will it not work?” Did you ever have those days of like, “Is it worth it?” Did you think about giving up before it got to that inflection point?


ITF 100 Josh | BiggerPockets
BiggerPockets: Make sure you vet the people you’re working with. You want to have some boots on the ground, as well as some backup boots.


How do you push through that?

I would not say every day but constantly. By year, call it 4 or 5, we were making enough money to have a pretty decent frugal life like having one car. We weren’t driving around too much. We were okay but we didn’t have a vacation, travel or do anything to excess. Nothing was excess. It was just getting by but we were happy having a good life. The struggle would come up every maybe couple of months, weeks or years or anytime somebody would like to do something crappy. I have to deal with it like a jerk on the platform. Somebody who’s wanting us dead would always get me to question, “Am I doing this? Why am I going through this? What am I dealing with?”

Year eight was when I had a complete and total meltdown. It wasn’t a complete and total meltdown but I broke down. I started crying and talking to Julie. I was like, “I can’t do this anymore.” I had feigned my way through pretending to the world that we had this giant team of people. I wasn’t lying. I would have various emails and answer various emails. “Support or advertise BiggerPockets.” I was playing the role of 27 different characters every single day. It was exhausting.

I got to a point where I was like, “Julie, we’ve got 100,000 to 200,000 users. We’ve got all this stuff going on. We’re living and supporting ourselves but I can’t keep going. I don’t want to take on debt. I don’t want to hire somebody through debt. I don’t want to do this. I don’t know what to do.” I ended up hiring a guy I knew in the real estate space to consult me. The decision I was going to make was, “Do I quit? Do I sell the business or do I keep going?” I was close to quitting. I was tired and worn out. I wasn’t working 40 hours a week. I was working 80-hour to 100-hour weeks every single week. I did not take a vacation.

When you work an 80 to 100-hour week, that’s not 5 days a week. That’s seven days a week. When my first daughter was born, I worked in the hospital. When she was sick years later, I worked in the hospital. I did not in my mind have the ability to take a day off. In reverse, I should have taken a day off and worked less. That was crazy what I did. It was outrageous how hard I worked but I would not be where I am had I not done that. I had to learn the lessons the hard way, unfortunately.

Let’s go to 2012 when you have that lunch with your mentor and consultant. Ultimately, how did that conversation go?

It was a process. This was months of like, “Here’s the platform, our data and revenues.” I flew down to Texas to hang out with him. For a week, we deep-dived into everything. We looked at, “I overbuilt these features. Let’s kill these features off. I did this. Let’s kill this off and spin it down. Let’s refocus because I had lost focus.” BiggerPockets went from real estate investing to all of the real estates. That was too much at the time. It got a little bloated. Ultimately, the big decision was, “How do I move forward?”

The answer to that question was, “I’ve got to hire somebody.” Mind you, I had hired contractors to help me code and do some support stuff but at this point, it was time to let go of the reins a little bit. The decision had to be, “I’ve got to hire somebody. How do I hire somebody when we’re making X amount of money and living on X amount of money?” We’re not living on 20% less than X amount of money. We’re living on X amount of money. We had to take a dramatic pay cut in year eight. Not that our life was bloated. It was not. It was far from it but we had to hire somebody. Hopefully, that would pay itself off, which it did. I hired Brandon Turner in year eight of BiggerPockets, not the Cofounder of BiggerPockets, the guy I hired.

You put in so much time before he came along. That’s amazing.

We started little by little and scaled the business even more but it was a fully functioning rocket ship by the time I brought in my first full-time employees. Not to belittle Brandon. BP wouldn’t be where it is without Brandon. BP was a viable entity that was crushing it when we brought on the number one employee.

I want to zoom out because we probably don’t have the time to go into all of the different lessons and everything. What are some great takeaways? Your life is probably forever changed having done this BiggerPockets project and then you’re away from it. What were some great lessons or maybe things you would’ve done differently that you can share?

I would’ve waited until year eight. I went to work. I could write many books on it. It was stuff that instantly comes to my mind. Work hard but work smart. You can’t work yourself into the ground. Find people that you trust. Putting your head down but trusting other people to be there to support you is valuable. People are going to take credit for your work and you can’t let that bother you. You know what you did.

One of the biggest things is it’s funny how people behave. I’m sure you have gone through this yourselves but when you start doing something that’s outside of the realm of normalcy, the people that are in your family and your friend’s circle will say things like, “Why are you doing this? That’s risky and weird. I found a penny on the street in New York. I’m going to mail it to you.” Talk shit. When things start going well, they’re like, “I always had your back.”

If you are building a business, get ready for discomfort. Overnight successes don’t often happen. Click To Tweet

Figure out who those people are early on, the people who are supportive and double down on those people because the other ones, as you go on in your career, will continue to have commentary and bring a negative influence into your life. I could think of many of those people. Cutting ties with those people and surrounding yourself with positivity is super important because that stuff could drag on you hardcore. It did for me and I was trying.

In building any business, you have to figure out who supports you. There are so many times along the way where you’re like, “Is this something I even need to be doing?” I can imagine that. I’ve never built something that big but it’s a hard road to be an entrepreneur and a business owner.

Josh, you know the story of me sleeping behind the curtain and all that stuff. It’s in the record books but when I was in the midst of doing that, my grandfather who I love and adore and who I’ve been taking advice from my whole life took me aside, called me on miser and thought that I would be living this cheap lifestyle my entire life and all of these things. That was a big blow for me. A couple of years later, he sees, “I get what you’re doing. I get it.”

Not that he ever left my life but he recognized what he did and apologized. Some people are not going to be on your side and people that have been on your side your entire life. Get ready to strap on that suit of armor. Know that the path you’re taking is leading to greater things, even if it doesn’t look like it to other people.

That sounds like some great words of wisdom that we wrapped up with. We should switch it to our final part of the show.

Let’s head into the Final Four. Z, kick us off.

Josh, I know you’re not prepared for this at all because you’re too cool. You’re all celebrity status. We know about you. What are you reading? Do you even read anymore since writing all those books?

I wrote one book, not multiple. I’m not reading the business books. I’m reading the health, happiness and lifestyle books. I am in the middle of reading The Comfort Crisis, which is awesome, by Michael Easter. It’s a fabulous book about rewilding yourself and getting uncomfortable, which is super important, both for health and lifestyle. Frankly, if you’re going to build a business of any sort, you better get ready for discomfort because overnight successes don’t often happen.

Josh, what is the best piece of advice you’ve ever received?

Come on the Craig Curelop show and the Zeona McIntyre show.

We’re called Invest2FI. Craig is here for the looks with a little mustache action.

I can think of a million pieces of advice I’ve gotten. Take care of yourself.

I thought you were going to say move to Maui. It was a good one.

ITF 100 Josh | BiggerPockets
The Comfort Crisis: Embrace Discomfort To Reclaim Your Wild, Happy, Healthy Self

That’s part of taking care of myself. In 2022, the world is hectic and there are so many pressures, particularly in this instant gratification social media world that we are living in. Far too many people get caught up in the nonsense and the FOMO. They don’t stop and think about what matters. What matters is you, your family, health and happiness. Money, fame and fortune are flashes in the pan for almost everybody who attains them. The sustainability of happiness and health is all that matters at least in my book.

That’s a great segue for question number three, which is what is your why?

My why is my kids. I want them to live in a safe world. I want to live in a world where they don’t have to worry about going to school or that something’s going to happen to them. I want them to live in a world where they can breathe fresh air and be healthy. The cheap food makes them sick. I want them to eat healthy food, get out, have fun, laugh and exercise, not be glued to a machine or screen. I want them to experience the earth and the world. My why is my children and their happiness, also my children’s children. That’s it. The rest of it doesn’t matter.

Josh, what is the most embarrassing moment in your entire childhood?

I was going to say being on the show.

You’re not a child anymore.

I’m a child at heart. I’ve got a lot of stories. My parents’ favorite story is great. We went into a Hibachi restaurant, one of those places where they cook on the table. I was probably six at the time. We’re sitting down. I’m getting this amazing meal. The chef is flipping. The eggs are flying in the air. Everything’s going. Have you been to one of these restaurants? It’s a blast.

I was having a great time and my dad’s like, “Come on, I’m going to take you to the back and show you the back room.” My brother and I get up. We follow him into this back room. In the backroom was the sushi room. They had this giant fish tank in this room. He’s like, “Check out the fish tank.” I walk up and was like, “Ew. Look at all of his tentacles.” I shouted it out. Everybody in the restaurant was cracking up, staring and laughing at me. I didn’t get what was happening until later when they explained it to me. That was rather embarrassing but it’s a great story.

Those people probably still remember you.

They might. The testicle boy.

Josh, real quick before we go. We know that you built BiggerPockets and after Brandon came, a lot of other people came and it scaled up. What are you doing now?

I am working on my why and focusing on a lot of learning outside of work stuff. In terms of work stuff, I’m investing in real estate, primarily through syndicates, investing in startups and advising some startups. That’s been a lot of fun for me being able to guide young entrepreneurs. Beyond that, working on my health and trying to take care of myself. If not 125, trying to get through this crazy world, doing it in a way that feels good to me and is good for my family and trying to better the world for as many people as I can, whether that’s supporting it financially or through social. Being able to be supportive of those things that matter is pretty important in how I think about my days.

I love how you’ve used the platform. You’re successful and truly living the life that you want to live. You’re doing what fulfills you and not doing anything that doesn’t. It’s a super intentional life. It’s giving inspiration. It’s an inspiration for me and a lot of others. Thank you for all that you’ve done and for coming to the show.

It’s a lot of saying no. This is probably the first show I’ve done for some time. I get asked a lot. I had to do this for the stash. Craig, I appreciated all you did for us at BiggerPockets. I want to be here and be supportive of you. I’m glad to be here but saying no to things and people that don’t matter, for me, is super important. Everybody reading should probably keep that advice as well because there are so many extraneous influences on us. If you kowtow to all of them, you’ll live the life you want to live. If you want to hear more of my bloviating on whatever I bloviate on, you can follow me on Twitter. I’m @JrDorkin on Twitter. I appreciate the time.

Thank you. I’m so glad that I made the shortlist. Thanks so much for coming on. It’s been good to see you and hear from you. We’ll be in touch soon, I’m sure.

Thank you, Zeona and Craig.

That was Josh Dorkin. Craig doesn’t know the cues.

No, I’m out of it. Maybe I’m the one that’s not producing.

What I liked is what he said at the very end, talking about saying no. That’s been a big theme for me, as I’m paring down figuring out the things that bring me the most joy or are directly connected to something I’m trying to achieve and then all the extra that is so easy to get lost in, how we can pair those things down, say no and subtract it from our lives. I thought that was some good wisdom at the end.

He’s like a testament to the entrepreneur. In your first few years, you’re scrappy. For him, maybe a little bit longer than he wished. You then start hiring help, scaling and growing. What he didn’t mention but what I know is that the business of BiggerPockets ended up running better without him there. It sounds like it’s a disk but it’s not. It’s the biggest compliment. To build something that runs better without you there means that you have successfully created a business with a passive income stream.

It will allow you to have a happier and more fulfilled life without having to put in those hard hours. I love that about Josh. I love how intentional he is about living his life. He does it all through action too. He talks a lot and all that stuff but it’s all through action. There are not enough good things I can say about Josh.

I could feel your bromance. It is shining through but we got to go, Craig. This is the end.

In the end, we always like to ask for any ratings and reviews on iTunes that you can give us. It would be greatly appreciated. It helps the show grow and get the word out to more people. If you would, please leave us a rating and review. Let us know what you think by DM-ing us on Instagram. I’m the @TheFIGuy.

I’m @ZeonaMcIntyre. Don’t make the joke, Craig.

I stopped. We’re taking a break from it. Thanks so much. We’ll talk to you in the next episode.


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About Joshua Dorkin

ITF 100 Josh | BiggerPocketsJoshua Dorkin is a successful entrepreneur, angel and real estate investor, advisor, author, podcaster, public speaker and proud parent. Most notably, he is the solo-founder of a once small bootstrapped tech company called BiggerPockets, which he grew into the massive brand it is today — focused on real estate investing content, community and tools. After leading and growing the company for 14 years, he exited in 2018 to serve on its board and focus on family and other ventures. Josh lives on Maui in Hawai’i and can be found mentoring new entrepreneurs, helping veteran business owners, guiding others in personal finance, investing, adventuring, and most importantly, spending time with his family. Visit his website at or connect on Twitter, his preferred platform at